In response to a recent post ...
As far as I know, this Citizen for Progress group is just an informal group of residents (friends) who supported the deal. There is a list of names — maybe about 10 people — on the big ad in the Traveler that ran Monday. Whether they have grown since then or are actually plugging into other corners of support, I don't know. We do know that on this blog and especially on James Jordan's blog the calls for a recall are many.
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18 comments:
Somebody posted what was necessary to do a recall. Is there any chance you could repost it, or print it in the paper. Or maybe even just tell us who is running it so we can go to them.
Is there a definite way to find a true majority? Is there a way to take a valid poll or perhaps to have an election? I guess maybe a recall vote would be similar to the same. If a recall goes through it will be a proven majority, if it fails it will prove otherwise.
People are upset because they care about Ark City's future. That is not a bad thing.
Nothing good can come from a recall.
Nothing good will also come from the Commission planting their feet, saying "this is their story and they're stuck with it" and ignoring the controversy.
The Commission should rise to the situation, call the developer, wish them a very Merry Christmas, and indicate they would like more time to work on it.
After the first of the year, they should send out a questionnaire mail out to all residents of Ark City, (maybe in their water bills) asking them for their opinion. It wouldn't cost the city a dime.
Once this "vote" is received, they should open a reconsideration, and vote the will of the Ark City residents.
The only reason people are so mad is they think the Commission ignored wishes of the majority.
Whatever way it comes out, it would reflect the desires of Ark City, and all controversy should be over.
It's the only way to heal this situation.
I don't think there is sufficient reason for a recall. I do think the majority has spoken, they were just ignored. Let's face it, we are stuck with this commission. We have no recourse. We have been shoved back into the old times where we shunned progress. There is nothing we can do. For the next few years this commission will continue to push us back and not allow people the progress we need to become a better city and better people. Grin and bear it. We're stuck with it. Let's hope the other 2 commissioners can talk some sense into the others. If not I'm sure we will survive 4 years, we'll just have to dig out of a much deeper hole.
It's not the only way. That is the problem and the challenge for growth. People of this community have to accept that there is always more than one way and one choice. If we did not have wrong, how would we know right. If we did not have bent, how would we know straight. The only thing that makes one way is because there is another.
So now that we know wrong and bent, how do we fix it. Can we afford to wait 4 years to fix it or do we continue to let it go wrong or get further bent? These people made their own decision. What makes you think they are going to listen to the people now?
There is another problem. I do see that I said I "think" they will do anything. You opted to impose your words onto me. Perhaps that plays some part in the whole communications problem in the community. REad through the posts again and see if maybe you didn't jump to some conclusion about my writing. Maybe the whole town is too occupied with jumping to conclusions and talking for themselves and for all others. Just before I posted this I re-read my statement again. Nope! Don't see anything that led you to conclude I thought they would do anything.
As for information and misinformation, in Arkansas City, the majority of the commission seats are up for election every two years. Specifically, Messrs McDonald, Hockenbury, and Margolius seats will all be decided in the spring of 2009.
Madam Smith and Mr. Kuhn will hold their seats until 2011. Jumping to conclusions will never produce the same gain as seeking and gaining accurate information.
Too bad we cannot turn this into a one on one dialog rather than this claok and veil e-version of Jerry Springer. I would love to really talk about identifying what is actually broken and then calling for some of the sayers to become doers in making things better.
When all is said and done, there is always more said than done!
I think the only thing broken is the representation of the people. The general talk before hand was positive excitement about the shopping possibilites and the big box. At the meeting there were a number of petitions that we didn't hear anything about afterwards. The people at the hearing seemed to be about 3-1 in favor of moving ahead. The present traveler poll is about 3-1 that people feel we were not represented. What is broke is a commission that is out of touch with or opposed to the people that elected them. I have neither seen nor heard of anything to counter these observations. We can wait until the next election, but how much damage can they do in the mean time? On the other hand, after the way they treated the developers how much worse could they make it for progress in this town.
Can we afford to wait for 2 years? And 2 of the commissioners in question have almost 4 years to go. Can we rely on them to represent us? It appears obvious now that they did not care about what we wanted. The present Traveler poll shows 3-1 that we feel that we weren't represented. What happened to the petitions? Did they show a great number of people that wanted to move forward? Were there some for and some against? What kind of percentage? Perhaps there weren't enough of us for this, but it seemed that almost everyone was excited about the positive possibilities. Maybe nothing good can come from a recall, but we can sure stop them from ignoring us in the future.
On this Christmas Eve, may we all put aside our issues here in our warm safe homes and think of those who are so far from home
We're from the U.S.A.
They send pictures from my hometown
Yellow ribbons on the tree
Waving flags and flying banners
Oh, I know they're proud of me
Cause I'm that farm boy from Kentucky
I'm the nurse from San Antone'
I'm that local football hero
I'm your neighbor there back home
and we're in this all together
color spectrum, black to white
and the gender doesn't matter
we're just here to do whats right
Oh, the same stars up above us
shine for freedom there at home
we know he's up there watching
for we are not alone
Theres a rancher in Montana
and a trucker in Tennessee
an a Oklahoma cowboy
I know they pray for me
we know we're not in Kansas
New York City or L.A.
But we were sent to do our part
We're from the U.S.A.
Merry Christmas one and all/PMM
We have to be careful people we choose to put into the city commission. Period. This is, to put it into Pop Cultural terms, like American Idol. Do not gripe if you do not vote. If a citizen does not CHOOSE to VOTE for a potential commissioner who stands for business revitalization in Ark City, this is the price.
That being said, I really question the integrity of the three who failed to see farther than the city limit sign. Does anyone remember the AC of the late 80's and 90's? (Did those three Commissioners even live here?) Let me paint this picture. People moved in from all over the country to take jobs at GE, Binney & Smith, Total, etc. These were professional people who had a choice -and we all came from big cities. "Honey, would you like to move to Ark City, Ponca, or Winfield?" We chose AC. We chose AC because its newer-looking high school suggested a strong value in the community on education. Active arts and theatre programs thrived. Cowley was a wonderful bonus for sports and degrees to kids who may not have dreamed of college. This was Arkansas City, Kansas. The downtown was lively with Harvey's and Sparks Music and Gloria Jean's and Bryant's Hardware and The Painted Pony. We also had Wal-Mart north of town. I said Wal-Mart. And K-Mart.
When moving from a large city to a tiny town the Big Box name is the KEY to luring a family and their income-earning potential into town. Sorry- it is. A person is attracted toward all things familiar (and Lowe's is everywhere.) AC needs all the professional working families she can attract to funnel money into our local economy.
Big-box names lured doctors to our town. Good doctors. And ministers. It brought future teachers, beef industry workers, white and blue collar alike. A Big Box may be what lured us initially, but it became a code of honor to shop downtown because of promotions by Merchants on the Move (MOM). I still shop in Ark City first. I like the convenience of not having to run to Ponca or Wichita every week.
The three Commissioners forget that Ark City is just trying to stay alive.
I love this town. But spicy tongues wag here and people are averse to positive, progressive change. People complain and put down Ark City all the time without building it back up. Daily. The people who care and have invested heavily in AC have experienced a serious blow from this event and others just like it. Therefore, expect good people to leave. Good, income-earning, local-dollar-spending proponents for the advancement of Ark City are moving away. Who wants to stay in a town where boards and commissions trash or eliminate the attractions? No one. People can move elsewhere. (By the way, we actually WANT PEOPLE TO MOVE HERE and REMAIN HERE to keep current businesses and activities going.)
Ark City needs a vaccine against short-sighted thinking. Are there any good doctors in the house?
You can write wonderful tales of where we've been, but how about where we are going? Nostalgia gets us nowhere. The facts were not on the side of Lowe's as the grand vision of the future. I'm afraid people were so desperate, they got their hopes up, and didn't bother to look at the facts. You can wrangle a good argument for why it should be hear and how the commission didn't listen. But that line of lingo is missing critical elements. There were NO STATISTICS showing that to be a good longterm decision. There were plenty of statistics showing a great propensity for detriment to what is already there in an existing community. There were too many people who never bothered to weigh both sides and they certainly brushed off what damage may have ensued. A bright shiny penny isn't always more valuable than an old one.
The facts are:
Ark City would have received new property taxes on the land itself.
Ark City would have received about 1/2 of the property taxes on the whole developement, and all of the taxes after the TIF and TDD are paid off.
Ark City would have had a Lowe's and another big retailer, most likely an Applebee's but we'll never know now.
The developer was going to bring in some other national retailers as they had at their other projects (I think James Jordan had done some research on that).
People would come to Ark City to shop at these places, bringing their money with them to pay our taxes, and hopefully shop elsewhere in town.
Ark City would have been seen as a growing thriving community that might be more attractive to people moving to our area, and maybe even to business and industry.
And that all adds up to.... our detriment?
If those were facts, the story might be different. What you state as facts is largely conjecture.
The items that actually ARE factual could be used to support both sides OR are not good enough reasons to counter the fallout of a failed store.
Where is the basis to make your Applebee's claim? You heard it from which reliable source? You can wish it, but that doesn't make it reality.
Twenty years to wait for the payoff? That is a ripoff anyway you look at it unless you are getting industry.
There was a commission in place that would have voted the redevelopment into place a year ago. Why didn't they do it at that time? Were the stakeholders too greedy and didnt want to pay a year worth of taxes if the deal failed to go through?
"The developer was going to--" That is PURE blahblahblah. You mean just like the 1 across from the bowling alley? If you believe everything a developer tells you then, where is that billion $ waterfront deal down at the river? The claims are not the same, but do you still believe everything you hear?
"hopefully shop elsewhere in town" And hopefully not put other businesses under? You conveniently left that out.
The detriment you are talking about is that when you see what you see from only one spot, you don't see too well.
You only offered what you think. Where did you get your phd? You don't have to be a genius to see that the "majority" missed a lot of facts that were available but they didn't care to look at.
If I remember right Bob Brown talked about money cycling in a community and about businesses that drew wealth out of a community. If you suck a community dry what is the benefit?
It's amazing that the retailer where the old Crestview used to be comes up in this. The idiots that think a new store moves in the next day need to wake up and see the light. Even if that developer contracted with the retailer that day it might take a week for them to organize, remodel, stock and man the store. And if the developer is busy with other projects they might not even get to start looking for several months (it only being about 6 months since it was opened).
I'm sure it was the same with the big box developer. Between running back and forth between the commission and Lowe's as well as their other projects this has prbably been in the works for years. I think another blog said paperwork since March. Who knows how long before that.
Yeah, it's easy to blame and lay negativity on. The people actually working for progress put in a lot of time and effort. Too bad those of you who want it now aren't willing to work for or wait for it.
Kill it quick, nobody could have possibly put thought or effort into it. I'm wondering just how much thought or effort the new commissioners actually put into it?
Hours upon hours. Certainly more than the previous "yes" people.
Question: Who are the new "yes" people? The 2 that voted for, or the 3 that voted against? Or does that apply to this new commission?
That was a good question. "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PETITIONS?" Are they in someones trash? Why have we not seen them? Were they not a part of the commission's meeting that was held on Dec.18,2007.Who had their hands on them last and weren't they a very important part of what when on that night? I do believe they were to represent a large majority of those that were there and of the citizens of Ark City.It has been proven in several ways that the citizens of Ark City were in favor of going to the next step in the BIG BOX process.Those that voted against it( the mayor and the 2 commissioners) need to answer to "THE PEOPLE" that put them into office.They just don't want to listen to them ( "THE PEOPLE"_). They are filled will selfishness and power.
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