I wrote a Traveler editorial in the paper today stating our (my) belief that neither side on the commission divide should be ridiculed for their vote. I also believe that a recall is not warranted — not the kind of conflict the town needs. Emotions will soften as time advances, I hope.
I get the sense that more people favored this deal than opposed it, but it's impossible to really tell without a scientific survey. I am sure that it divided the town.
One thought struck me late last night after the vote — had this come up 10 month ago, the result would be totally different. In fact the previous commission might have voted 5-0 in favor.
This vote helps define what kind of shift we experienced in elected leadership. It makes clear that voters elected Margolius, Smith and Kuhn in a kind of populist uprising that seem to reject the "progressive" politics of the sitting commission. It was s sort of "listen to the people, back to basics" movement with mistrust of those in office.
Now we have anger at the reverse — anger at not advancing economic development and for allegedly putting their heads into sand at progress. The anger appears to run deep. But how wide is this feeling? I guess we'll find out in the coming days if a recall is launched and followed through.
Wednesday, December 19, 2007
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21 comments:
David Allen...I truly believe a recall should be launched. This vote was a travesty to the people have worked and struggled for 20 years to keep Ark City a viable, active community where the surrounding communities come to shop...as it was 30-40 years ago. We have to progress....and last night's meeting showed us that our current city commission has their own agendas to fulfill...and not the will of the people that have been here all their lives. I hate a recall...but I truly feel it is necessary at this point
It is not an issue of right or wrong at this point. Promises were made. Some of the commissioners promised to listen and do the will of the people. One of the commissioners has stated openly that he doesn't care what the people want. There is no good can come from this. These commissioners have turned their backs on us and there is no way to say there is anything right about it. How can we depend on anything else in the future. There must be a change.
I believe that a recall is very much apropriate.
The commission has a duty to seek all information
to seek an informed decision. It was very obvious that
they were intent on stopping the project before all information
was released. A yes vote lastnight would have committed to nothing
it would however released important information on the proposal that
would have a more informed puplic and commission.
Their arrogance and abuse of power makes me want to vomit. Their
representation of our community was unforgivable and an embarasment
to all of us , no matter what you support.
They have failed to uphold their duty to seek all information and facts, therefore
they should be removed from office. All future decisions made by these three commissioners will forever be tainted by secret information and distrust. I have lost all respect and faith in their ability to effectively govern our community. I do however applaude Patric and Joel for atleast being willing to listen to the proposal.
I agree! I have to applaude Joel here as he wanted more information as did all of us I think. What was so wrong with wanting to find out MORE, and listen to a proposal form them! These were the acts of people that were scared and who did the only thing they knew to do at the time to maintain their control. Much like an animal in a fight or flight syndrome who fears what MIGHT happen and bolts! They simply bolted from the issue with what power they had while they still had power.
I'm not sure what the answer to the problem here is, but I'm for SURE all about finding out more from those who know more! To be SO stubborn as to respond with the act of a spoiled teenager and close your ears to possibilities, pretty much says how they think and feel about those they represent! Much like how they passed on to their own employees a overall 10% recent insurance increase in one of their closed session meetings as well as cancelling the part time employees insurance all together! Overall I feel they've proven that they don't have what it takes to handle the responsibilites bestowed upon them to represent the people of this city! Start the process....
The commissioners did represent us! Not everyone thinks alike as was obvious at the meeting and I think a lot more people are against this that were not willing to speak out. Everyone kept saying that it is easy to be a naysayer. Not in this instance! One of the speakers at last night's meeting was called a Bastard to his face on the streets of downtown today. Are you still proud of your town? It is easy to say that a big shiney lowes is good for the town, after all we all shop there right? It's much harder to actually look at the studies and examples and see that it won't be good for us and stand up against your friends and say no. The other thing that bugged me last night was the number of older folks who have made the decisions in this town for years while the town has declined complaining that the young people are leaving. Look around! We came back! We were there, most of the speakers against the lowes, including the Bastard and the business owners were all under 40. Maybe it's time, for a change, to start listening to the young ones, not the same old people. Thanks Scott, Doty and Mel for listening to everyone!
Lets get the recall started
Only by starting a recall vote and following through with it will we find out...did 40% or more of the registered voters disagree with their decisions they made that were taken out of our hands??? A recall vote is in order here...please someone with the knowhow get this going...advertise it well so that all voters can finally voice THEIR opinion...rather than the ones that these THREE voiced FOR us.
I don't think we can take a chance on our future. Who is leading the recall? Where can I go to sign or carry petitions? We need a change before we lose another opportunity.
Who was the attorney that Curis Eaton brought in and how did he get time with the big box guys. How did a private citizen get an attorney (who works only for who hired him) to speak out BEFORE the public hearing? Was this a setup? They did not ask to speak, the Mayor specifically called them to the microphone.
I want to know more about how this was set up and who all knew about it. Why did Curtis Eaton and his lawyer get special treatment?
David Allen, I understand what you meant about the changing commission, but didn't the citizen survey spell out pretty specifically what kind of progress the people of Arkansas City want? Why was it that the commissioners ignored that information. Just as important why didn't you take that into account for this post? It seems that anything that happened just a few months ago is forgotten. Just like us. If we (the people) don't speak out every week, what we want seems to get lost in personal interest of the commission. And in the case of the paper we get put aside for whatever seems to be new. It seems to me that most of the problems of our community could be resolved if the powers that be would just listen. In the case of the three amigos I don't think that can ever happen. They are supposed to represent us and they obviously have no intention to do so. I believe they must be recalled before their personal interests or before someone like Curtis Eaton uses whatever means to steal their attention from the people. They have proven without a doubt that private interest is more important than what the people want.
You can recall a commissioner for incompetence. It was done in a City I leved in 5 years ago. Lets get the petition started.
Anyone can ask ahead of time to be put on the city meeting agenda and get 15 min. to talk. The developers took way over their 15 min. to lie to us and Eaton's lawyer only spoke 8 min. and was only giving general TIF info. Why are you so upset that the truth about TIFs came out. Don't you think we deserve all the info. on TIF we can get before we set a precedent with one? Eaton's lawyer was also very open about who hired him and why he was there, He was the only lawyer there who was open with this type of info.
HOW DO WE GET A COPY OF THIS REPORT???? HELP US AC TRAVELER
"For the person who said the Corridor Study stated we could not support a Lowe's or Home Depot... MAYBE that is why they needed the TIF to get started?"
Yes the TIF could have used to get the project started and completed. That is not the issue with the corridor study...it states that this community of 28,000 can not support a Lowes or Home Depot, this is due to the lack of population in which to draw from...intead it suggests that a store more in the size of Sutherlands be implemented. Still don't believe this? That is fine and I understand many people have hurt feelings, feelings of betrayal and feelings that the door has been closed in Ark City. There are many many studies on the negative after-effects of National Big Box retailers in small communities. I tried to stay open-minded and looked for the same studies that should be out there disputing them. I could not find any. I searched with Google, the Kansas Dept. of Commerce, asked economic professors at KU and KSU. Even went to my Alum OU to find some answers. There are no studies out the to say differently, if there were wouldn't Wal-Mart want them out to the public?
Col. Lind says the pottys are in disrepair at Woods and Bryant's. I still feel that if Zach Bryant puts in a new bathroom it is not going to affect his business base, but it will improve his marketability for future growth. Amazingly enough, Zach has found a renter for the collectable side of Bryant's. All he will say is that they will remodel, install ADA toilets and be a nice draw for downtown...who knows maybe they will. Question is, will any of those that wanted Lowe's hold a grudge for so long even this new renter will not make it, because they rent from Bryant's? Are all of you so mad that friendships will not be repaired? You have to at least understand that Zach is not to be blamed, yes he was against a TIF district, be he has been quoted that if Lowe's comes on it's own dime, then that would be fine. If your livelyhood was to be affected you would be against it too. Be honest with yourself and think like a new businessman, if you just bought a business and now it's very exsistance is in the sights to be destroyed what would you do? I happen to know many of you think it was Zach's poor decision for buying in to a crumpled up old building, and I have heard that, "he knew the condition of the bldg. before he bought..." I also know that Roger Brown of AC Industries gave Zach his "Personal Guarantee" that the Big Box Store issue was dead. One month after Bryant's was bought, here comes AC Industries out with the Big Box Proposition. Maybe it was coiencidence....
In any event, I respect each of your thoughts, hope we can heal the dispute...but moreover please do not hate the businessmen for trying to keep a level retail playing field. No, you do not have to shop in AC ever again, but at least be friendly when you see a businessman.
One more comparision:
Think of a Union Strike all of you GE workers....do you have the Guts to cross that picket line for something you believe in, or do you just call in sick that day, so you don't have to confront anyone? Well the businessmen did not have the option of calling in sick!!!
I liked the comment about the new parts stores running the old ones out of business. Before the new parts stores came to town you could only bu parts Mon. thru Fri. 8-5 and sometimes til noon on Sat.
Shame on the new parts stores for coming in and catering to the public.
The Bryant Hardware has continually been discussed during this debate.
I was a member of both The Retailers Assn and Chamber of Commerce during the Montgomery fire.
Montgomery Wards 5 story building burned to the ground (leaving a space on Summit where KG&E built).
Immediately following this disaster Lou Bryant discussed with both the Chamber and Retailers on a method of getting Montgomery Wards back.
At the time I was suprised at Lou's promotiing this project because Montgomery Wards and Bryants competed against each other on many items.
I talked to him about this. He said that Montgomery Wards brought a lot of people from the trade area and that these people not only went to Montgomery Wards but stopped by his store.
I think Lou's progressive spirit was what made him successful.
I Don't think you can put a fence around Ark City and block competition out. I believe that you need to encourage this type of development.
Concerning the details of whether Lowes could make it here or not. One can argue either side. We'll never know. Neither side is really qualified to make this judgement.
Do you think Lowes is going to come in here without doing their on investigation and study which will be much more detailed. They are not coming in here if their studies do not prove the project feasible.
We'll never know will we...unless perhaps we had a recall and again offered the site for study.
I'm dissapoiinted in this commission.
has anyone organized or started the recall yet? who do I contact to sign the petition?
I think most of the pro Box'ers miss the point of the TIF usage needing to be regulated. Ark City has no policy on TIF usage and until it does there shouldn't be a willy nilly use of tax payers money to the benifit of a developer.
I have never liked the idea of taking from the many and giving to the few.
The 3 commissioners that voted against the TIF being given are truely a breath of fresh air as compared to many previous commissions that rubber stamped anything that was brought before them by the same group.
The 3 commissioners did NOT vote against the TIF. They voted against setting up a zone where they might use a TIF. They voted against hearing the proposal. They voted against doing a fesibility study. They voted against negotiating for the best deal to create a shopping center. They voted agains releasing information to the public.
The only thing rubber stamped was the suppression of information. And maybe the prevention of progress, but we'll never know, will we?
A recall sounds like the right idea, but what if our situation does not fit. If there is a majority that no longer trusts or has faith in what our commissioners do, how can we react? How can we protect ourselves from decisions the commission makes against what we want? Do we have any protection or recourse?
How do we start a recall? I called the county clerk and they said to call the commission. I called the city and they said I had to call the county clerk and get a form. Is this a runaround conspiracy to slow it down, or is it just a matter of the people who should know don't?
call the county attorney. he will tell you that your complaints don't meet any of the 3 tests the legislature requires for a recall.
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