City attorney Tamara Niles is worried that the prayer to open city commission meetings violates the constitution's prohibition of establishing a state religion.
She recommends adopting a policy to invite chaplains from all congregations within Ark City and ask them to not invoke a specific deity - ie Jesus Christ.
This will not fly well among most of the clergy and probably most of the public, but it would be the safest way to avoid violating the constitution and protecting from a lawsuit by someone or group.
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8 comments:
It's the right move. Every time someone prays to a specific diety, they are violating the separation of church and state.
You show me where in the constitution it says "separation between church and state." You need to see the entire speech that Jefferson gave about that and understand it before you just start lying about the constitution. When Jefferson said that, he was talking to two seperate groups of christians about separation between church and state. They were worried about the government dictating to them what denomination they would have to follow, not christ. They both believed in christ, just worshiped in different ways. However, both groups and Jefferson new that this nation was founded on religion and the right to pratice it any way one may see fit. Praying to Jesus in a government building is not a violation of the first amendment. It is an exercise of the first amendment. Wake up drones!
"Praying to Jesus in a government building is not a violation of the first amendment. It is an exercise of the first amendment. Wake up drones!"
WRONG!
While it is true that the Separation of church and state is not mentioned in the constitution, it is the law, and there have been many court decisions supporting it.
"When the government puts its imprimatur on a particular religion it conveys a message of exclusion to all those who do not adhere to the favored beliefs. A government cannot be premised on the belief that all persons are created equal when it asserts that God prefers some." -Supreme Court Justice Harry A. Blackmun
That means praying to a specific diety (Jesus Christ) is a violation.
Examples:
Since 1953, Burbank council meetings have been opened with an invocation, usually delivered by a member of the Burbank Ministerial Association. The group is mostly Christian, and has no members from Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam. In 1999, Irv Rubin, the late leader of the Jewish Defense League, joined a number of other plaintiffs to launch a lawsuit against the City of Burbank, CA. He was distressed to hear a member of the Mormon church say during an invocation before a municipal meeting: "We are grateful heavenly Father for all that thou has poured out on us and we express our gratitude and our love in the name of Jesus Christ." The Superior Court of Los Angeles ruled that sectarian invocations of this type violated the principle of separation of church and state.
2001-2005: Prayers at the Great Falls, SC town council meetings:
According to HeraldOnline: "Darla Kaye Wynne, a Wiccan high priestess, sued the town [in 2001] after its leaders refused to open meetings only with nonsectarian prayers or to allow members of different faiths to lead the prayers. Wynne claimed she was ostracized for refusing to stand and bow her head during the Christian prayers."
She won at the U.S. District Court, in front of a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and at the full Court of Appeals. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to review the case. This left stand the Court of Appeals' ruling. The town council had its own legal costs covered by an insurance policy. However, they now have to dig up $40,000 to cover Wynne's legal fees. She claims that she has been subjected to harassment, vandalism and violence since the case began.
Imagine that. christians harrassing someone because they don't believe the same thing they do. Who would have ever thought... Oh wait, maybe all those people murdered during the crusades!
Besides the legal issues, Jesus says only hypocrites pray in public.
Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."
I guess then you want them to pray to the Great Architect of the Universe? (GAOTU)
How about just not praying to anyone?
REcently, someone mentioned the cost of the City being sued for other reasons. The response from City Hall - the City Atorney I beleive - was the city has insurance against such ltigation. Hence, it doesn't cost us anything to be sued. We don't even defend it. It is just parted out to some law firm out of Wichita who draws a really huge check from the carrier for bandying about disputes.
They make no effort to sue and we have not before demonstrated any concern over that fact. Why are we cost conscious now?
I think the City Attorney is being neither a pragmatist or economist. I think she is being a populist.
So, are you saying we should just keep discriminating against people and wait until we do get sued?
This country was based on freedom of religion. Even though the original settlers were primarily Christian they were escaping the wars in Christian belief in Europe. From that point forward this country and our constitution has made every effort to protect the freedom of religion. ANY RELIGION. To set one above the others defies the basic precepts this country was founded on. The city attorney has set out that we can pray to God without stepping on other religions. Their can be prayer for the commission but the audience is not required to participate. It seems like a fair trade to be able to pray to God and make no requirements for people of other faiths. There is no reason to put forth publicly that one religion is better or more accepted than any other. It is everyone's right to believe as they will, and it is no one's right to force their religion on others. Be thankful the city attorney found a way for people who believe to express their thanks and ask for blessing.
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