Thursday, July 3, 2008
Abrams-Leach
Hard to believe the primary is a month away. The sheriff's race is getting most of the attention, but I think a fascinating contest is the Republican primary for state senate. Steve Abrams is the front-runner of course. But he's such a divisive figure that it will be interesting to see how George Leach, an unknown figure from Mulvane,will do. Leach hasn't done any campaigning yet (none down here, at least) and we haven't had any stories on him (coming soon. He told me the other day he doesn't think people are taking him seriously. I also heard that Republican party leaders were upset with him because he didn't consult them before he filed. They probably wanted Abrams to walk surefooted into the general to face Goodwin, which will be a barn-burner of an election, I'm sure.
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31 comments:
Never heard of Leach.
Anybody can run. Anybody can lose. Not sure I would run against Abrams.
Since I'm asking Leach who?.\, he should be prepared to loose his first primary.
Don't remember anyone named Leach helping grow the Cowleyy County Republican party in the last decade. Has he worked the booth at the fair ? Has he canvased for another candidate ? Has he donated time & money ? Is he pro life or pro death ?
Jumping into politics cold usually ends in defeat or disaster.
I find it interesting (an somewhat offensive) that you call Dr Abrams "divisive", meaning he causes disunity or dissension. Just because his beliefs do not line up with yours does not mean he is causing dissension. It is a difference of opinion. I believe that is covered by the First Amendment. If he gets elected into office, this would mean his opinions match a majority of the people who voted. I would think you calling him divisive is somewhat slanderous, but you can use the First Amendment as well, since it is your "opinion"
If you don't think Abrams is divisive then there's probably nothing I can say to persuade you, but I'll try.
He chaired the board of ed and pushed these agenda items during that time:
1. changing evolution teaching and promoting intelligent design
2. charter schools
3. hiring a director with public school background
4. "Opt in" sex education
5. Labeling literature as "porn"
It was the evolution debate and the intelligent design hearings that will follow Steve all his political career, good or bad. If you don't think that divided the state, then ......
That said, Greta Goodwin can be divisive, too. More her sharp elbow style, though, than her agenda (in my opinion)
Whoops I meant "no" public school background in my last comment
Greta & the Democrats don't have an agenda ?
I think your take on the school board creation/evolution debate shows your agenda.
Everybody has an agenda including people who are born into a newspaper family. Some are more honest than others.
I applaud you for being an independent then openly registering Democrat.
What I find dishonest is working behind the local Republican party to push an agenda that wants the party to look just like the Democrats. What is the point of having a 2 party system if they are the same.
Sharp elbows as a style is practically a compliment as a description of Greta. That is a nice attempt at but an inaccurate way of describing someone who is very ascerbic and downright unfriendly to everyone but her friends.
The (not very intelligent) intelligent design debate made us the laughing stock of the country.
I don't want someone who is going to use the power of their office to push their religious views off on me and my family.
Steve Abrams is just the messenger. He is acting EXACTLY like a Chrisitan Pro-Life Rebublican candidate/board member should.
Boo hoo there are those who don't like the message. My suggestion is buy Kleenix stock.
Weren't you on the left coast when the evolution creation debate happened? I was right here in Kansas. Front row seat...didn't depend on the Courier for my info either. If you received your info from Dave Sr. well ... consider the source ... he has an agenda.
"1. changing evolution teaching and promoting intelligent design"
FALSE :
He wanted to enable teachers to teach BOTH...Just like the new governor of Louisiana is allowing teachers to do.
2. charter schools
SO ....
You against news competition also ? Government schools NEED competition. A monopoly breeds mediocrity & socialism.
3. hiring a director with no public school background
SO ... you're point is ?
When I was growing up school administrators stayed in one school district till retirement. Now they are for sale to the highest bidder. Why hire someone in the system to direct the system & hold it accountable ?
4. "Opt in" sex education
SO...again your point ?
When you have to put the word education behind a word it doesn't make it a valid subject. Whose view of sex is taught in government schools ? Abstinence is a valid option since it works 100% of the time. Most anything else is indoctrination. Guess you are against allowing abstinence taught also.
5. Labeling literature as "porn"
This doesn't surprise me.
Dare you to start publishing porn in the Traveler & Courier & put your money where your mouth is. Bet you don't publish porn long till people start complaining about the porn. Do you have porn in your home where your boys can see it ?
How about this label .... Trash !
Try coming up with some valid points cause all the above are either false or just complaints.
Some people have convictions, some have opinions & some just have diarrhea of the mouth.
Try saying less & be sure of the facts. Try saying anything without a bias/agenda showing.
I bet one thing. Steve Abrams will probably not spend one dime to advertise in either the Traveler or the Courier.
The agenda of how he has been treated in print locally is obvious to most whose last names don't start with an S.
If anyone can beat Greta it is Dr. Abrams. I applaud him. He has my vote. I'll even put up signs for him.
Abbreviated (Jackie Whitley),
You can be as childish as you want, but I'd appreciate it if you left my children out of your ramblings.
a) You might want to check YOUR facts. Abrams and the board did NOT require teachers to teach Intelligent Design. (Yes, I read the science standards) Abrams, in my opinion, promoted ID by holding those hearings and elevating it to an accepted theory.
b) Opt-in sex education means parents must pre-approve their kids receiving sex ed. Has nothing to do with abstinence.
Try disagreement with a dollop of respect. It's good for the soul.
-David Allen
Abbreviated:
If there's a better example of an oxymoron for a post-name than yours, I'd like to see it. Wow.
And, it would be hard to argue against the fact that Steve Abrams is singularly the most controversial elected official in the state over the last decade. Again, wow.
I won't be able to cast my vote in the primary, but certainly will be in the general. Just keep in mind that Kansas ranked between 5th and 9th in student achievement nationally in the early 1990's...then the school board (of which Mr. Abram's became a leader) decided to meddle. I believe Kansas has fallen to between 12th and 15th (somewhere near there). If he's hoping to emulate the kind of progress he made in his last elected office...God help us all.
Evolution is a religious view.
John Mc Cain and Barach H. Oboma are staying away from the number one issue: When are we going to start drilling for oil in all of the choice locations in our own country? Is there any reason not to, or are our politicians just plain stupid? Their excuses that it would take years to get started
is getting a bit old. It seems to me that if John Mc Cain or Barach Oboma can't or won't get off their backsides and change their negative opinions of our country being self reliant for its oil needs then perhaps neither of these politicians is suited to run our government.
What are the real reasons for a big percentage our countries economy being siphoned off to middle eastern oil concerns or are we just plain stupid to keep listening to their insipid arguments that all is hopeless and that we are responsible for this. In fact we are for electing politicians with no gumption or reasoning powers to determine what is best for our great country. All of their talk is meant to get them into office so that their party can get more jobs for their own elk. They don't give a damn about our great country which is founded on free enterprise-not political hacks that put their ambitions ahead of our country needs.
No reason to get your panties twisted David. Abbreviated didn't say or intimate anything untoward regarding your kids. He made a good point. Can't you take it for what it was?
Curious: feel free to attack abbreviated's comments or to single out Dr. Abrams for the problems with education in KS. Thanks for showing us your ignorance in full bloom.
If you intend to blame him for all of the faults and foibles when he was a lone ranger trying to bring reform, your politics betray any good sense you might have had.
Dr. Abrams is one of the most prinicpaled and upstanding citizens you will meet. Not liking someone or disagreeing with them doesn't make them a controversial figure. He isn't controversial to me at all. He represents the ideals I believe in. You find him controversial because you disagree. That doesn't make him controversial. That makes you sensitive and unable to engage in an intellectual debate on the issues.
Same for you and shame on you David. You have to resort to making fun of I.D. You should try it on for size. It would do you some good. You would find out pretty quickly you aren't the center of the universe.
Davey Junior & his anonymous posse-
Let's talk about REAL dis respect.
I've had a front row seat watching Dave Senior's agenda since 1994.
Dave Senior should apologize to EVERY
Republican Party Chair & Republican candidate since 1994. Probably before that, but I've only lived here since then. I've witnessed him working behind the scenes pushing his agenda.
He has done NOTHING, but undermine the party. The people he promotes as chair & other offices do NOTHING for candidates.
He has given money to Greta, but NOT the Cowley County Republican party.
He should NOT be a registered Republican.
People have done double takes when they are told he is a registered Republican.
Now .....
I don't want tax subsidized porn/lit. in government schools in Kansas or the other 49 states.
Evolution is a tax subsidized fairy tale. Science has to be observable. So it is a theory NOT science. Kansas & the other 49 states should be able to teach both evolutionary theory & the creation theory. Ben Stein's movie clearly shows the agenda of the evolutionists. No Creator no accountability.
Thankfully, Abrams is the polar opposite of Greta politically.
If those with lame criticisms would take the time to know him as a person we would all be better off. I've heard he sings. Never had the privilege of hearing him. I bet his singing & other pursuits would be in 95 % agreement of most. His politics are only 5% of what makes him a person. I've even disagreed with him on one subject.
In response to Curious,
A non documented fact about Abrams reign on the KSBE is that he has lost much more than he has won.
First of all you review his record, he usually attempts to give more authority to the local school boards & or parents. This has been his stance all a long, I hope most people applaud him for this.
Most of the non-unanimous votes of the mid 90's, Abrams as well as Kevin Gilmore were on the side of defeat.
Remember when Abrams was the lone voice, on the KSBE that warned against President Bush's "No Child Left Behind" Program. Ask any school teacher in any state how that has worked out.
I wish that I could document the early 90's Kansas test scores, the credible sites that I searched (act.org, nces.ed.gov) dont go back to the early 90's, but Kansas did rank between 11-17, with the exception of t-7th in 1998 from 1994-2008. Isn't it interesting though that KS test 75% of our graduates while MA, CT, NY, NH, WA, VT, MA which top the list only test 10%-20% of their students. The only states in the union that test 100% of their students, CO & IL rank 43 & 41 according to act.org.
These achievement test are a joke...its great that some states only test a handful while other states test the majority or all of their students...seems a little skewed.
Finally, it is tough to blame Abrams for meddling when he was Chairman for 1 year and on the majority for 2 years 12 years after your reported drop in scores. Seems like if we want to blame someone, it would be those opposed to Abrams on the Board for the lower test scores that you bring up.
Although, I do not fault Liberal, Moderate, or Conservative members of the State Board for lower test scores. Just wanted to throw another point out there. I wish that I could speak these words in a calm manner...sounds like I am screaming...I am not...just some food for thought or possibly snacks : )
I think the dialogue so far helps proof my point that Abrams — I have met him and he does seem a nice guy — is divisive. Let me correct that — his agenda has been divisive.
Whether one agrees with it or not isn't the point. I agree with Roe v. Wade. I also agree that decision was VERY divisive.
(BYW, the post I deleted had a factual error in it. Rather than repost to explain, I deleted it. So there!)
I understand people's feelings are strong and emotions run high on these issues. But let's all please try to stay civil and avoid personnel attacks (myself included)
Regarding porn vs. literature.
If one does not see these books as "porn" as described by Steve, then asking somebody if they would give their kids access to porn or publish it in a newspaper or whatever doesn't make sense.
There is a BIG difference between Penthouse and "Beloved." Not even in the same ballpark and to marry the two leaves no room for honest discussion about whether a book is too mature for high school students or not. Perhaps Beloved and Song of Solomon or the others on that list ARE too mature according to the standards of a community. But to label it "porn" - end of story - isn't helpful and disparages those who think otherwise.
I have written complimentary about Abrams' criticism of no child left behind, and his support of all-day kindergarden and vocation education.
The big fact is, in my opinion, that Abrams will always be tied to trying to bring creationism, and then ID, into the schools.
I understand that many people support that. Many people don't however. To me, it's very clear that Christian fundamentalists confuse facts and faith, religion and science. They take a belief system and try to fit science/nature into it. Evolution is based on observing nature/facts and coming up with a theory to explain it.
OK, have at me ...I'm ready .....
:)
David,
Just wondering, why did you use "abbreviated" 's name in your rebuttal?
I identified Abbreviated as Jackie Whitely because she has long been an outspoken critic of my dad's, which I thought was relevant to her diatribe that included my dad and the newspapers in general.
She had identified herself to me before when she filed for Republican Party position.
I would encourage everybody to identify themselves, actually. Certainly you don't have to, but it does raise the civility and might make people think before they post.
Whoops I mean "Whitley"
That seems a little.. okay, a LOT chickens*** to out someone who was posting under an alias or anonymously, just because you were mad.
Good to see the fair and biased media at work.
Abbreviated said...
"Evolution is a religious view."
Only in your warped little world. Evolution of plant and animal species is PROVEN FACT. The only thing open to debate is whether or not MAN evolved from a lower being. I happen to believe that science is much more believable than a supernatural being waving his magic wand and making us as we are today. I've read fairy tales less outlandish.
Perhaps I should not have ID'd Jackie. But she did not ask to conceal her identify when she revealed her name to me. I would not have ID'd her if she had.
In my opinion what is chicken is to level attacks and say big things on blogs anonymously. We get a fair amount of pressure from some folks to end anonymous comments. The nature of the wide-open internet, tough, prevents us from doing that, at least right now.
Stop bothering me. I've got work to do
:)
Davey Juniors email :
Who are you ?
That is it....almost a demand.
I think, well, he needs a little help. His research skills are lazy. So I tell him. I reply back my name.
Have nothing to hide from him personally.
Didn't know I'd be thrown under the internet blog train.
I will accept an apology, but won't hold my breath.
I do owe an apology — to this entire blog. I should have known better than to get pulled into the gutter.
This is the last of it on my part. I'll do better next time.
-David Allen
Abrams divisive? The people who have repeatedly elected him apparently don't think so.
If Abrams is elected will that make you wrong ?
Abbreviated,
It wont make Mr. Seaton wrong.
Abrams is an honest man, he gives honest sound bytes (bites sp?) and in that regard is a poor politician. He is divisive, but to say he is the most divisive politician of the last 10 years is an overstatement. Kline is much more divisive, and quite possibly there is a Senator from Colby, Hiawatha, or Salina that is more divisive than Abrams but doesn't garner much attention in these parts.
Part of the division over Abrams is created in the media, not necessarily by the Traveler either. The Eagle and Star have really done a poor job of explaining the issue of his criticisms of Evolution. Living in Cowley it has given me an opportunity to speak with him about Genetics, Mutations, changes within species that Darwin, Mendel, & Morgan were curious about...I think his background gives him great support in his explanation of his concerns with the Scientific Model given forth by the State Standards.
But he is honest and therefore divisive.
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