A novice's take on the local, state and national political scenes
Wednesday, June 3, 2009
Language of abortion
Does the incendiary languageof the hard core anti-abortion movement encourage violence against abortion providers?
19 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Let's agree on one thing.. Tiller was a scumbag. He used his in house mental health professional to say that women were suffering from depression or undo stress in order to carry out abortions well after the law says the child must be carried to term. That is a loophole that is in place to protect women from harm if the pregancy threatens their life, not if it makes tham a little stressed or anxious. This was simply a way to get around the law and kill babies that were so far along they probably would have lived if they'd been delivered instead of killed.
I am not a fan of O'reilly, but exposing wrongdoing to the public is what journalists are supposed to do. He exposed what tiller was doing to a world that had no idea this sort of thing was going on. That is his job.
Woodward and Bernstein won prizes for exposing watergate.
David, you never seem to comment on anything after your initial post, but please think about this. What if your pregnant wife were a couple of months away from giving birth and she decided she didn't want to carry it full term, and she went to someone like Tiller and had your baby killed without even consulting you, using the "stress" or "depression" loophole? Put yourself in those shoes and see if you still think it's all about a woman's right to choose. She doesn't even have to tell you or get your okay. That is not right.
I don't mean to imply that your lovely wife would ever do anything like that, but many women have, and it's all perfectly legal.
When does it become about the babies body, and not about the woman's?
It is a matter of semantics. It doesn't DIScourage the violence, and it, as we can see all over the internet, applauds the violence. Yes, the biggest groups were quick to say they were not related to this "fringe fanatic," but we now see they were. It is not overt, but yes, they perpetuate the violence.
Interfaith Service of Prayer and Reconciliation 4pm Friday, June 5 at First United Methodist Church, 330 N. Broadway
God calls all people of faith to act justly and to love mercy. An act of violence has occurred in our community and in a place of sacred worship which violates both commands – the murder of Dr. George Tiller on Sunday, June 1, 2009. Such hostility and loss of life should lead all people of faith to prayer, confession, repentance, and to seek healing of all that is broken in our hearts, in our relationships and in the world.
The faith community of Wichita invites all people of faith to gather for an Interfaith Service of Prayer and Reconciliation at 4pm, Friday, June 5 in the Sanctuary of First United Methodist Church, 330 N. Broadway in downtown Wichita. The service is open to the public. Those interested in singing in a combined choir should arrive at 3pm. Clergy are invited to sit together and should arrive at 3:30. Denominations and religious organizations that will covenant to be in prayer for our city and for justice, mercy and reconciliation should email Michaelg@firstwichita.org. Live video streaming of the service will be hosted on KAKE.com.
Our goal is to seek God’s peace and comfort, and pray for Dr. Tiller’s family and friends, the people of his congregation at Reformation Lutheran Church, and for our community. May God forgive us and lead us all to be better than we have been in keeping with God’s commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself.“
The service is being sponsored by the following faith organizations in the Wichita area: Interfaith Ministries of Wichita Heartland Transformation Ministries Micah 6:8 Fellowship of Downtown Clergy Heartland Transformation Ministries Mid-Kansas Jewish Federation Wichita Chapter of the Muslim Public Affairs Council
Dr. Cathy Northrup, President, Inter-Faith Ministries Board, First Presbyterian Church Dr. Michael Gardner, Vice-President Inter-Faith Ministries Board, First United Methodist Church Rev. Catherine Caimano, Micah 6:8 Fellowship of Downtown Clergy, St. John’s Episcopal Church Rev. Ben Staley, President, Heartland Transformation Board, Northridge Friends Church Rabbi Moti Rieber, Mid-Kansas Jewish Federation Maher Musleh, Wichita Chapter of the Muslim Public Affairs Council Rev. Sam Muyskens, Executive Director, Inter-Faith Ministries Rev. David Griffis, Executive Director, Heartland Transformation
Contact Information: Dr. Michael Gardner, Senior Pastor, First United Methodist Church 330 N. Broadway, Wichita, KS 67202 316-267-6244 E-mail Michaelg@firstwichita.org
Anonymous said... Let's agree on one thing.. Tiller was a scumbag.June 3, 2009 7:56 AM
Nope! I am going to NOT agree on that. He was a man. He was a doctor. He was someone's son, father, husband and/or friend. He was one of God's children.
As for any choices he made in life - ANY and not just his profession - he, just as we all do, will have his chance to stand in judgment before the Almighty. We don't answer for Dr. Tiller. He doesn't answer for any of his patients. Anonymous will not speak in my behalf on the day of judgment.
Romans 14: (King James Version) 11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
By everything, I assume you mean the fact that people exist, and the planets exist, and the stars exist, etc etc?
Evolution. easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Now, let's talk about what I don't believe:
Well, I don't believe that some magical being created the universe in seven days 6000 years ago. I don't believe that a being that powerful would need to rest on the seventh day. I don't believe that the world is flat. I don't believe that bats are birds. I don't believe that dinosaurs are a hoax, or that praying can get you things you want or need. I don't believe that preachers should take someone's last dollar in return for laying hands on their sick child, and then go hop in their mercedez and drive to their mansion in Beverly Hills. I don't believe that when I die I will go to a magical land where all my loved ones will be waiting to sing and dance with me. I don't believe that anyone could fit a few million species of animal on the same boat. I don't believe there would be enough shovels or clothes pins in the world to clean up after said animals. And lastly, I don't believe that the god of the bible is something I would want to worship even if he was real, due to the many attrocities he lets happen and/or causes in the bible.
And yes, I am very happy. I have a great life. Thanks for the concern. I have a great family, a great home, a great outlook on life, and I have great morals. What more do you want? You want me to believe in the supernatural without one iota of proof? Nah. Been there, done that, woke up.
Why do people say he was guilty of providing illegal late term abortions when in fact a court of law found him not guilty. Not that I agree with the late term stuff but I do believe in our justice system.
I'm going to guess that many of you who are so anti-anything, in this case abortion have never walked in the steps of the women who seek abortions. The fact is until you do you should not judge. And don't forget that abortion is legal.
I find it interesting that in some cases the people who disagree with abortion are also some of the same people that do not believe we should teach birth control to young people. That absurbed way of thinking is why women/girls have abortions and there is a high rate of teen pregnancy. I believe we should all look for a realistic way to reduce the need for abortions regardless of which side of the issue we stand on.
Sadly the person who killed Dr. Tiller tends to make all anti-abortion people look bad which is sad b/c I know there are many good people that disagree with what Dr Tiller did but never resort to murder.
WHY did the Wichita Eagle put Tillers widow's picture on the front page of the paper? Are they trying to get her KILLED TOO? PRAY FOR HER SAFETY PLEASE!
"I'm going to guess that many of you who are so anti-anything, in this case abortion have never walked in the steps of the women who seek abortions. The fact is until you do you should not judge. And don't forget that abortion is legal."
You are wrong. I have faced the decision, and had a parent who was pushing abortion, but we never gave it a second thought. Because no moral person would.
I'm going to guess that not one person who is "Pro Choice" has ever put themselves in the shoes of the innocent baby that is getting chopped up and thrown in the garbage simply for being inconvenient. And many attrocities have been "legal" over the centuries. That doesn't make them right.
I don't believe it does -- people who commit those types of crimes don't need suggestions to do it. AND it bothers me that many are suggesting he belonged to some of those groups just because he made a few posts on their websites. I don't belong to this group just because I am posting. Does that mean if I or one of you committed a crime we are all automatically linked and this blog owner is partly responsible -- I don't think so. Let's try to be more responsible with the finger pointing. And I don't think the harsh language on either side helps anyone's cause.
I don't think Roeder was a part of any anti-abortion or pro-life group. But I really wish people would quit saying bad things about Dr. Tiller for at least a little while. You don't have to agree with him, but at least let those of us who knew him be in peace for a little while.
This makes me sick. It is a comment in the Eagle today from the leader of an aborion protest group that gave Dr. Tiller problems for years.
We are thankful that Tiller's clinic will not reopen and thankful that Wichita is now abortion-free," said Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, a Wichita-based anti-abortion group. "We have worked very hard for this day"
How can someone with any tact what so ever be happy. This was a result of murder, terrorism. Disgusting! I hope this encourages young people in medical school to become abortion providers and open a practice in Wichita. I am so mad at Kansas right now.
19 comments:
Let's agree on one thing.. Tiller was a scumbag. He used his in house mental health professional to say that women were suffering from depression or undo stress in order to carry out abortions well after the law says the child must be carried to term. That is a loophole that is in place to protect women from harm if the pregancy threatens their life, not if it makes tham a little stressed or anxious. This was simply a way to get around the law and kill babies that were so far along they probably would have lived if they'd been delivered instead of killed.
I am not a fan of O'reilly, but exposing wrongdoing to the public is what journalists are supposed to do. He exposed what tiller was doing to a world that had no idea this sort of thing was going on. That is his job.
Woodward and Bernstein won prizes for exposing watergate.
David, you never seem to comment on anything after your initial post, but please think about this. What if your pregnant wife were a couple of months away from giving birth and she decided she didn't want to carry it full term, and she went to someone like Tiller and had your baby killed without even consulting you, using the "stress" or "depression" loophole? Put yourself in those shoes and see if you still think it's all about a woman's right to choose. She doesn't even have to tell you or get your okay. That is not right.
I don't mean to imply that your lovely wife would ever do anything like that, but many women have, and it's all perfectly legal.
When does it become about the babies body, and not about the woman's?
It is a matter of semantics. It doesn't DIScourage the violence, and it, as we can see all over the internet, applauds the violence. Yes, the biggest groups were quick to say they were not related to this "fringe fanatic," but we now see they were. It is not overt, but yes, they perpetuate the violence.
No...the bigger question is ...
Why does the Seaton Empire ignore the execution of a military recruiter by a converted Muslim ?
Stop making Tiller out to be a martyr.
There are only 2 other US abortionists who do late term abortions.
That type of service isn't main stream.
Find it interesting that I had to hear from O'Reilly about the latest Tiller trial. The Courier didn't report on it.
The guy who shot Tiller probably heard voices, but I doubt one of them was Bill O'Reilly's.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: (06/02/09)
Interfaith Service of Prayer and Reconciliation
4pm Friday, June 5 at First United Methodist Church, 330 N. Broadway
God calls all people of faith to act justly and to love mercy. An act of violence has occurred in our community and in a place of sacred worship which violates both commands – the murder of Dr. George Tiller on Sunday, June 1, 2009. Such hostility and loss of life should lead all people of faith to prayer, confession, repentance, and to seek healing of all that is broken in our hearts, in our relationships and in the world.
The faith community of Wichita invites all people of faith to gather for an Interfaith Service of Prayer and Reconciliation at 4pm, Friday, June 5 in the Sanctuary of First United Methodist Church, 330 N. Broadway in downtown Wichita. The service is open to the public. Those interested in singing in a combined choir should arrive at 3pm. Clergy are invited to sit together and should arrive at 3:30.
Denominations and religious organizations that will covenant to be in prayer for our city and for justice, mercy and reconciliation should email Michaelg@firstwichita.org. Live video streaming of the service will be hosted on KAKE.com.
Our goal is to seek God’s peace and comfort, and pray for Dr. Tiller’s family and friends, the people of his congregation at Reformation Lutheran Church, and for our community. May God forgive us and lead us all to be better than we have been in keeping with God’s commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself.“
The service is being sponsored by the following faith organizations in the Wichita area:
Interfaith Ministries of Wichita
Heartland Transformation Ministries
Micah 6:8 Fellowship of Downtown Clergy
Heartland Transformation Ministries
Mid-Kansas Jewish Federation
Wichita Chapter of the Muslim Public Affairs Council
Dr. Cathy Northrup, President, Inter-Faith Ministries Board, First Presbyterian Church
Dr. Michael Gardner, Vice-President Inter-Faith Ministries Board, First United Methodist Church
Rev. Catherine Caimano, Micah 6:8 Fellowship of Downtown Clergy, St. John’s Episcopal Church
Rev. Ben Staley, President, Heartland Transformation Board, Northridge Friends Church
Rabbi Moti Rieber, Mid-Kansas Jewish Federation
Maher Musleh, Wichita Chapter of the Muslim Public Affairs Council
Rev. Sam Muyskens, Executive Director, Inter-Faith Ministries
Rev. David Griffis, Executive Director, Heartland Transformation
Contact Information:
Dr. Michael Gardner, Senior Pastor, First United Methodist Church
330 N. Broadway, Wichita, KS 67202 316-267-6244 E-mail Michaelg@firstwichita.org
###
Anonymous said...
Let's agree on one thing.. Tiller was a scumbag.June 3, 2009 7:56 AM
Nope! I am going to NOT agree on that. He was a man. He was a doctor. He was someone's son, father, husband and/or friend. He was one of God's children.
As for any choices he made in life - ANY and not just his profession - he, just as we all do, will have his chance to stand in judgment before the Almighty. We don't answer for Dr. Tiller. He doesn't answer for any of his patients. Anonymous will not speak in my behalf on the day of judgment.
Romans 14: (King James Version)
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Charles,
Since I don't believe in god, your attitude fits perfectly. You are without a doubt holier than thou.
Anonymous said...
Charles,
Since I don't believe in god, your attitude fits perfectly. You are without a doubt holier than thou.
June 4, 2009 8:04 PM
I never really understood that phrase so I miss the insult if there was one.
Sorry.
But I don't think you attacked my faith. Am I right about that?
If you don't believe in God, how do you explain everything? You must leave a very sad life and must be VERY unhappy.
How do I explain everything?
By everything, I assume you mean the fact that people exist, and the planets exist, and the stars exist, etc etc?
Evolution. easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Now, let's talk about what I don't believe:
Well, I don't believe that some magical being created the universe in seven days 6000 years ago. I don't believe that a being that powerful would need to rest on the seventh day. I don't believe that the world is flat. I don't believe that bats are birds. I don't believe that dinosaurs are a hoax, or that praying can get you things you want or need. I don't believe that preachers should take someone's last dollar in return for laying hands on their sick child, and then go hop in their mercedez and drive to their mansion in Beverly Hills. I don't believe that when I die I will go to a magical land where all my loved ones will be waiting to sing and dance with me. I don't believe that anyone could fit a few million species of animal on the same boat. I don't believe there would be enough shovels or clothes pins in the world to clean up after said animals. And lastly, I don't believe that the god of the bible is something I would want to worship even if he was real, due to the many attrocities he lets happen and/or causes in the bible.
And yes, I am very happy. I have a great life. Thanks for the concern. I have a great family, a great home, a great outlook on life, and I have great morals. What more do you want? You want me to believe in the supernatural without one iota of proof? Nah. Been there, done that, woke up.
2:52 PM - great post!
Why do people say he was guilty of providing illegal late term abortions when in fact a court of law found him not guilty. Not that I agree with the late term stuff but I do believe in our justice system.
I'm going to guess that many of you who are so anti-anything, in this case abortion have never walked in the steps of the women who seek abortions. The fact is until you do you should not judge. And don't forget that abortion is legal.
I find it interesting that in some cases the people who disagree with abortion are also some of the same people that do not believe we should teach birth control to young people. That absurbed way of thinking is why women/girls have abortions and there is a high rate of teen pregnancy. I believe we should all look for a realistic way to reduce the need for abortions regardless of which side of the issue we stand on.
Sadly the person who killed Dr. Tiller tends to make all anti-abortion people look bad which is sad b/c I know there are many good people that disagree with what Dr Tiller did but never resort to murder.
WHY did the Wichita Eagle put Tillers widow's picture on the front page of the paper? Are they trying to get her KILLED TOO? PRAY FOR HER SAFETY PLEASE!
"I'm going to guess that many of you who are so anti-anything, in this case abortion have never walked in the steps of the women who seek abortions. The fact is until you do you should not judge. And don't forget that abortion is legal."
You are wrong. I have faced the decision, and had a parent who was pushing abortion, but we never gave it a second thought. Because no moral person would.
I'm going to guess that not one person who is "Pro Choice" has ever put themselves in the shoes of the innocent baby that is getting chopped up and thrown in the garbage simply for being inconvenient. And many attrocities have been "legal" over the centuries. That doesn't make them right.
I don't believe it does -- people who commit those types of crimes don't need suggestions to do it. AND it bothers me that many are suggesting he belonged to some of those groups just because he made a few posts on their websites. I don't belong to this group just because I am posting. Does that mean if I or one of you committed a crime we are all automatically linked and this blog owner is partly responsible -- I don't think so. Let's try to be more responsible with the finger pointing. And I don't think the harsh language on either side helps anyone's cause.
I don't think Roeder was a part of any anti-abortion or pro-life group. But I really wish people would quit saying bad things about Dr. Tiller for at least a little while. You don't have to agree with him, but at least let those of us who knew him be in peace for a little while.
"That scanner report was incorrectly interpreted as a police chase. "
The thing that cracks me up the most here is a scanner listener incorrectly interpreted something, other than "how many have you had tonight, sir?"
Hey ma, the man on the poe-lease scanner sayed thar's a poe-lease chase. Hurry, ma...thay dun tore up downtown.
Scanner listeners.
Yes, I agree. Please stop saying bad things about the guy who murdered babies. He was a regular saint.
And don't say anything bad about myopic ultra-cons with their holier than thou narrownmindedness.
They truly don't know any better.
This makes me sick. It is a comment in the Eagle today from the leader of an aborion protest group that gave Dr. Tiller problems for years.
We are thankful that Tiller's clinic will not reopen and thankful that Wichita is now abortion-free," said Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, a Wichita-based anti-abortion group.
"We have worked very hard for this day"
How can someone with any tact what so ever be happy. This was a result of murder, terrorism. Disgusting! I hope this encourages young people in medical school to become abortion providers and open a practice in Wichita. I am so mad at Kansas right now.
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