Atheists sue to stop "So help me God" phrase.
This age old debate never stops.
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16 comments:
Well, I think people on both sides should study history. This IS NOT a country founded on Christianity. We are a country that the majority religion is Christianity (various sects).
The first Christian President was Andrew Jackson. All presidents prior to Jackson felt that religion's primary role was to promote morality, which they felt was indispensable to society, but should not be legislated, in fact, they felt it should be avoided by government. They were freemasons, deists, or theistic rationalists.
"In God We Trust" did not become the national motto until 1956.
I think the radical Atheists who sue to stop things like this are stupid. I am an atheist, but I don't really care what everybody else does. I will still say the pledge of allegience, I just leave out the under god stuff. I will still put my hand on a bible and swear to tell the truth in a court of law, even though I might as well be putting my hand on a warm puppy. I like puppies better, so that would be cool. I agree with the seperation of church and state, but people who go to the extreme like this are just giving the rest of us a bad name.
Their rights trample on ours- their rights stop where ours begin.
I completely agree with the 5:41am post. I feel the same way.
Being annoyed is not a valid reason to sue.
George Washington was a Christian. One can't read his words & not know that.
Very disgusting. They won't be happy until they destroy the fiber of America.
Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to "Jesus Christ." He attended church rarely, and did not take communion - though Martha did, requiring the family carriage to return back to the church to get her later.
When trying to arrange for workmen in 1784 at Mount Vernon, Washington made clear that he would accept "Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists." Washington wrote Lafayette in 1787, "Being no bigot myself, I am disposed to indulge the professors of Christianity in the church that road to heaven which to them shall seem the most direct, plainest, easiest and least liable to exception."
Clear evidence of his personal theology is lacking, even on his deathbed when he died a "death of civility" without expressions of Christian hope. His failure to document beliefs in conventional dogma, such as a life after death, is a clue that he may not qualify as a conventional Christian. Instead, Washington is closer to a "warm deist" than a standard Anglican in colonial Virginia. Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents
Dr. Rush tells me that he had it from Asa Green that when the clergy addressed Genl. Washington on his departure from the govmt, it was observed in their consultation that he had never on any occasion said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so. However he observed the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly except that, which he passed over without notice. Rush observes he never did say a word on the subject in any of his public papers except in his valedictory letter to the Governors of the states when he resigned his commission in the army, wherein he speaks of the benign influence of the Christian religion.
I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his secrets & believed himself to be so, has often told me that Genl. Washington believed no more of that system than he himself did. - Thomas Jefferson, The Works of Thomas Jefferson
The total and complete lack of the use of the words, Jesus Christ, or terms like saviour or redeemer in his personal correspondence is to me a remarkable fact. Every one arguing the close connection between GW and Christianity must surmount this staggering obstacle. The absence is so total that I cannot conclude other than that it is conscious - he does not even refer to Jesus as a great moral teacher or prophet. There is simply no reference to the person, Jesus, either implicit or explicit. GW seems to have made a taboo of the word, Jesus Christ. In the congressional calls for days of confession, thanksgiving, they include things like "through the merits of JC" GW slightly modifies as to not to use the word. Rupert Hughes, George Washington: The Human Being and the Hero p. 292
George Washington was a man for whom if you were to look at his writings, you would be very hard pressed to find any deep, personal involvement with religion. Washington thought religion was important for the culture and he thought religion was important for soldiers largely because he hoped it would instill good discipline, though he was often bitterly disappointed by the discipline that it did or didn't instill. George Washington: The Human Being and the Hero p. 221
"GW was esteemed by the whole world as a great and good man; but he was not a professing Christian" Rev Dr. Bird Wilson, sermon in 1831
Two first hand accounts and three scholarly accounts. There are many more first hand sources that state the contrary and no first hand sources that I can find that sate that he was a Christian. What writings are you referring to? The Mount Vernon speech to his troops?
Good reasearch. I love it when the bible thumpers pull facts out of their butts and then are proved wrong.
This country was founded on an idea of freedom of religion, which means you can choose OR NOT CHOOSE any religion you like.
If Obama is going to have a religious ceremony, paid for by our tax dollars (which could be beter spent I might add), then he should either include ALL religions, or NONE!
It's called seperation of church and state for a reason.
Separation of church & state isn't in the Constitution.
"Separation of church and state" was started from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he cited the First Amendment of the Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.
Even though the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution, they are certainly meant with the combination of two Constitutional principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.
It certainly is both a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate, and there is absolutely no evidence that states that our founding fathers had any plans to combine the two in our government, ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE.
Again... BRAVO on the research. I am glad I'm not the only rational, free thinking person on here.
Theres a Man going around taking names, and He decides who to free and who to blame, everybody wont be treated all the same, there'll be a golden ladder reaching down, when the Man comes around. The hairs on your arm will stand up, at the terror in each sip and in each suck. Will you partake of that last offered cup, or disappear into the potters ground? When the Man comes around.
This format isn't conducive to debate. Here is a thread on the subject in a place that is set up easier for debate :
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_4083430/mpage_1/tm.htm
Please read the site's TOS.
There's a debate? On what?
Theres a Man going around taking names, and He decides who to free and who to blame, everybody wont be treated all the same, there'll be a golden ladder reaching down, when the Man comes around. The hairs on your arm will stand up, at the terror in each sip and in each suck. Will you partake of that last offered cup, or disappear into the potters ground? When the Man comes around.
It always cracks me up when people try to take "pop culture" and turn it into an effort to make a scriptural point. Yeah, Johnny Cash is who I look to for Biblical clarification. If they only realized that's how Dogma begins...(Satan/Hell and Dante's Inferno for example....)(oh, and the whole 2% false and 98% true one as well...)
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